Posts by Doug Mason

66

The Bible: God's Word or Man's?

by Doug Mason in

my jw visitor left me a copy of the 2006 print of the book "the bible: god's word or man's?

", and i intend to provide him with my analysis of it.. i notice that the book was written in 1989, and the dates of the references suggest the book has not been updated since then.

am i correct?.

Doug Mason

thetrueone,

Whether the Bible is the product of the human mind - as propaganda or as a guide for acceptable community behaviour - is not the issue I am pursuing here.

I am interested in the methods employed by the WTS as it prosecutes its case.

Doug

66

The Bible: God's Word or Man's?

by Doug Mason in

my jw visitor left me a copy of the 2006 print of the book "the bible: god's word or man's?

", and i intend to provide him with my analysis of it.. i notice that the book was written in 1989, and the dates of the references suggest the book has not been updated since then.

am i correct?.

Doug Mason

For my own convenience, I converted the HTML files by Seeker into PDF format.

If you are interested, I have uploaded the PDF files to Filesend. I have provided two versions, one that does not include the links provided by Seeker (to make it easier to read just what Seeker says), while the other PDF does contain most of his links (some no longer work).

“rebuttal by Seeker without links.pdf” is available at

http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=b81c28e10f12174ecca58cd38310035e

“rebuttal by Seeker including links.pdf” is available at

http://www.filesend.net/download.php?f=2e59f1c21ee6ffb026dac5e10b335541

The size of these files is very small.

You need to wait 25 seconds before the “Download” button appears.

Doug

66

The Bible: God's Word or Man's?

by Doug Mason in

my jw visitor left me a copy of the 2006 print of the book "the bible: god's word or man's?

", and i intend to provide him with my analysis of it.. i notice that the book was written in 1989, and the dates of the references suggest the book has not been updated since then.

am i correct?.

Doug Mason

Thank you for those two references regarding the book.

They will make useful and interesting reading as I prepare my thoughts.

Terry, Regarding the original autographs, as we agree, they underwent so much editing and the insertion of comments that scholars are of the view that to seek out the original autographs is the same as trying to unscramble an omelette. We only need look at the vast differences between the OT Greek (of which there is more than one version) and the Hebrew text in the key book of Jeremiah.

Doug

66

The Bible: God's Word or Man's?

by Doug Mason in

my jw visitor left me a copy of the 2006 print of the book "the bible: god's word or man's?

", and i intend to provide him with my analysis of it.. i notice that the book was written in 1989, and the dates of the references suggest the book has not been updated since then.

am i correct?.

Doug Mason

No problems. I reckon that with my other personal commitments, I should be through it in 2 to 3 weeks and I will put it on my web site.

On the surface, it appears to me that the author does not address the question posed by the title of the book. Rather than providing positive evidence, the author focuses on attacking other people ("Christendom", "Higher Criticism", etc.), while the final chapters are simply a commercial for the JWs. These are not rational ways to prove whether the Bible is "God's word or Man's".

I have to go through it more thoroughly, but his "fulfilment of prophecy" line is the WTS's subjective interpretation that is open to refutation.

It is so tragic that JWs have to be satisfied with such trite propaganda material and are denied access to real and thorough analysis.

I will start another Thread when I have finished my review of the book. I am not the font of all knowledge, and any help is gratefully considered.

I find it interesting that they say they hold the Bible in such regard yet they are prepared to insert their nonsensical "Jehovah" word into the NT. They obviously don't want to acknowledge the Nomina Sacra used by the primitive Christian Church.

The book was written 1989 and the later reprint of 2006 does not take into account the impact of later studies or more recent archaeology.

Doug

66

The Bible: God's Word or Man's?

by Doug Mason in

my jw visitor left me a copy of the 2006 print of the book "the bible: god's word or man's?

", and i intend to provide him with my analysis of it.. i notice that the book was written in 1989, and the dates of the references suggest the book has not been updated since then.

am i correct?.

Doug Mason

Hi People,

I too believe that the Bible is the product of people's minds, and lean heavily in favour of Higher Criticism and its various iterations. For that reason, I possess the books that have been mentioned, as well as others. That is not my question.

I have been asked by a JW to read the WTS's book "The Bible: God's Word or Man's?" and I am in the process of preparing a written analysis of it for him.

All I want to know is "does anyone know who wrote the book?". As a bonus, I would also like to know something of the author.

The book is pathetic but my JW visitor deserves an honest and considered review.

Doug

66

The Bible: God's Word or Man's?

by Doug Mason in

my jw visitor left me a copy of the 2006 print of the book "the bible: god's word or man's?

", and i intend to provide him with my analysis of it.. i notice that the book was written in 1989, and the dates of the references suggest the book has not been updated since then.

am i correct?.

Doug Mason

My JW visitor left me a copy of the 2006 print of the book "The Bible: God's Word or Man's?", and I intend to provide him with my analysis of it.

I notice that the book was written in 1989, and the dates of the references suggest the book has not been updated since then. Am I correct?

Has anyone produced a review of the book?

Does anyone know the name of the author, and if so, anything about him (her)?

Any thoughts on the book are most welcome.

Doug

7

539 v 587 - the relative merits of each as a pivotal date

by besty in

however, the lunar data on vat 4956 fit better with 588 than with 568 b.c.e., twenty years prior.

additionally, the planetary data was most likely calculated backwards and not observed for 568 b.c.e.

thus the most reliable information on vat 4956, the lunar data, may actually point to 588 b.c.e.

Doug Mason

The real critical date for the WTS is for 537 BCE being the year that the Jews returned to their homeland, and that it was the year they dedicated the altar of the temple. Unfortunately for the WTS, it cannot prove 537 BCE as being the correct date for either event.

Further, the WTS says the 70 years began 2 months after the destruction of the temple at Jerualem when people went into Egypt, yet it does not end the 70-year period when the opposite happened and people returned to a supposedly empty land, but rather the WTS ends the period when the altar was dedicated. Any scholar will tell you that this did not happen until after the new temple had been completed decades later.

539 BCE is not an Absolute Date, but is calculated using the secular historians that the WTS rubbishes. The WTS cannot arrive at any date without relying on the very secular historians they decry.

Where can I see that debate you are referring to?

Doug

19

Help me understand the WTS/JW eschatology

by Doug Mason in

i am seeking help as i attempt to understand the wts/jw current understanding of the eschatological sequence of events.

please show me where my understanding is correct and where it is wrong:.

wts/jw background.

Doug Mason

I am seeking help as I attempt to understand the WTS/JW current understanding of the eschatological sequence of events. Please show me where my understanding is correct and where it is wrong:

WTS/JW BACKGROUND

· Jehovah God’s Kingdom Government was set up in 1914, which included the resurrection to spirit life by most of its 144,001 kingdom-priest rulers.

· The group of 144,000 redeemed from earth receive eternal life since they are Born Again, Christ’s brothers, the Elect, Christians. Jesus Christ gave his life for them alone, and the majority of the Scripture’s promises apply solely to them.

· Each person who is to make up the balance of this group is resurrected to spirit life in heaven when they die.

· Everlasting Life upon earth for the remainder of humanity depends on acceptance of the Kingdom Government’s rule that is taught by its sole representative on earth, the Governing Body of Jehovah’s Witnesses (GB).

· The President of the WTS provided the initial formulation of this Kingdom Government message in 1935. (It undergoes refinements, such as the creation of a Governing Body.)

· There is thus a vast number of people who lived before 1935 who never had the opportunity to know the WTS’s teachings on the Kingdom. These are “unrighteous”.

· The resurrected spirit-beings who lived before 1935 are not “unrighteous”, even though they never had the opportunity to hear the WTS’s Kingdom Message. They are “unrighteous” but they are not “evil”.

· A number of people have heard their message but have rejected it. These are included with those who are deemed to be “evil”.

· A number of faithful believers in the Kingdom message have gone to their graves, which are known as “memorial tombs”. These are “righteous”.

WTS/JW SEQUENCE OF LAST-DAY EVENTS

· God’s Kingdom Government towards earth was set up in October 1914, following the start of WW1.

· Because Satan is no longer in heaven, he rocks the earth with greater calamities than before.

· When the number of resurrected spirit beings reaches the assigned 144,001, war takes place between heaven and earth at a place called Armageddon, which results in billions being killed. Some were “unrighteous”; some were “evil”. Faithful followers of the WTS might survive the War.

· At the conclusion of this conflict, the “righteous” are resurrected to life on earth. (Whether the resurrected “righteous” and the living survivors are known at that time as the Great Crowd or whether in prospect is not clear.) With great joy and singing in their hearts, men, women and children bury the billions of dead (including their non-believing relations), clean up the devastated cities and countries, and take over all infrastructure operations, including the supply of resources, energy, raw materials and skills needed for the massive printing program that lies before them.

· Every day for centuries, the “unrighteous” are resurrected to life at various locations on earth. These include virtually all the people who lived before 1935 and most since that time. The evil are not resurrected, nor are Eve and Adam. Those who had already rejected the WTS/JW Kingdom message are not resurrected. (For nine billion resurrections, this requires fifty thousand additional “unrighteous” being resurrected each and every day for five hundred years. That is, about eighteen million resurrections every year for five hundred years.

· Each resurrected “unrighteous” is given the opportunity to hear the Kingdom message they had missed out on. (For this to occur, every ancient language, dialect and idiom is mastered by the resurrected righteous while the resurrected unrighteous are able to accept the inventions of the modern era which are required by the righteous to get their message broadcast across the globe.)

· Those who refuse to accept the Kingdom message live on, working in the cities and on the land, because at the end of 1000 years from the Battle at Armageddon they are still alive to take up arms against the Kingdom. Jehovah God murders them.

· Those left behind to clean up this inherited mess are called the Great Crowd. They live eternally as they too have received the gift of eternal life.

42

Who killed more people in the bible? God vs Satan

by Simon in

i thought this was good:.

.

http://loveyourchaos.tumblr.com/post/505826969.

Doug Mason

"God" vs "Satan"?

Jewish thinking said that when bad things happened to them, God was punishing ("rewarding") them for their disobedience, not Satan. Because of his people's disobedience, God used Nebuchadnezzar to punish his people. Satan was a tempter, but God meted out punishment.

Further, it is not valid to count the number of God's OT victims, since their stories are not always to be understood literally. Numbers were used symbolically, for purpose of emphasis and teaching lessons, but not with statistical literal accuracy.

Doug

4

Trying to understand the primary and secondary seed of Abraham.

by bohm in

recently, i stumbled upon the whole 'primary/secondary seed' discussion, and it seem to be a quite untouched subject if i can trust the search function.

as allways when i am extremely confused about a wts interpretation i begin to think they just made it up.

i understand the definition of the seed (primary: jesus, secondary: 144'000) but i simply cannot grasp the argument.

Doug Mason

bohm,

Paul wrote the letter to the Galatians and he died in 64 CE, before the destruction of Jerusalem, before any Gospels were written, and most importantly while the People of the Way (they were not called "Christians" at the time he wrote Galatians) were considered as being grafted on to the Jewish religion (not the other way around).

These incoming Gentiles were thus being drawn into the promises that had been made to his Jewish people, and thus inherited the benefits of the promises made to Abraham and his descendants.

Doug